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Toonami Infolink :: View topic - Golden era of anime
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Impossibles Max Fleisher's Superman (a.k.a. Roulette) The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest Robotech Sailor Moon DragonBall Z Filmation Superman Batman Superfriends
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Okay I was thinking about this when i was replying to the favorite anime post. In my mind there are shows that defined different time lines of anime. Such as StarBlazers and Gundam being the top versions of that top of animation and style in the mid-late 70s. But around 1980 you get Fist of the North Star which introduces the idea of superpowered humans and no mechs as the stars. As well as some good old gruesome violence not seen before it.
I dont have a doctorate of anime. I havent seen nearly as many as the rest of you. And im sure Nobu will have a lot to say on this, and i look forward to hearing it. Go back as far as you want. Like what started the copy cats of the Ultraman years? What was the anime that helped launch Transformers, Voltron or Macross? What was the height of those years style? Did Akira change the way anime was drawn? Did movies like Monokoke(sp?) change the way they directors do their movies? And what movie/series out now is changing the way animes will be made.
Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:23 pm
Nobuyuki
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject: Re: Golden era of anime
Fodder wrote:
I dont have a doctorate of anime. I havent seen nearly as many as the rest of you. And im sure Nobu will have a lot to say on this, and i look forward to hearing it.
Ooh, boy... I'm not sure I really have that much to say. I think I can remember some "Speed Racer" re-runs when I was younger, but I never really saw anything that was definitively a Japanese cartoon until "Battle of the Planets" in junior high. To me growing up, they were (and still are) cartoons. I've tried since then to not categorize shows by country of origin, although I've probably failed at that, for the most part. And aside from BotP, I really only knew of "Voltron" and "Robotech" as being Japanese in origin. I also knew there were a lot of Japanese names in the credits of "Thundercats", even though it was a Rankin-Bass production. (Later in life, I was pleasantly surprised to find out that two of the names on those credits were Katsuhito Akayama and Nobuyuki Kitajima, but that's completely beside the point )
But if we define "Golden Age" the same way we do comic books, where the primordial soup of shows like "Astro Boy" (the new one RAWKS, BTW), "Gigantor" and "Kimba" matures into the cornerstones of public perception, then it's the early '70s to around 1980 or so, when titles like "Mazinger Z" and its successors (the origin of the super robot shows that developed into Transformers, Voltron and Macross), "Lupin III" (action/adventure), "Space Cruiser Yamato/Star Blazers" (space opera), "Cutey Honey" (magical girls, with implied nude transformations ), and "Urusei Yatsura/Lum" (harem comedy) were released.
Of course, as always, I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. _________________ "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."- C.S. Lewis
"Superman can't be emo. He can't cut himself."-CP
Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:35 pm
JohnnyPsycho
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Post subject:
Holy crap, Nobu! I think you completely nailed that question on the fucking head with a sledgehammer!
I've only done a little bit of actual study in Asian films in college, but unfortunately I haven't done any serious study of anime... yet.
Yeah, I'd have to say the stuff from the late 70's/early 80's is among the most innovative of the format and helped to clearly define Japan's animation industry from most everything else being produced at the time. But I only say that because I'm partially biased toward those "old school" titles, since Urusai Yatsura was among the first distinctly (culturally) Japanese series I ever watched back when I was formally introduced to anime in highschool, and I grew up on Voltron and G-Force...
And I think even the modern anime industry is realizing how great the styles of those shows were, which explains why Cyborg 009 and Kikaider rock that excellent old-school flavor that makes it seem so retro it's almost new... _________________ "The principles you live by create the world you live in; if you change the principles you live by, you will change your world." -Blaine Lee
"I plan to live forever. So far so good." -Steven Wright
Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:26 pm
Nobuyuki
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
JohnnyPsycho wrote:
Holy crap, Nobu! I think you completely nailed that question on the fucking head with a sledgehammer!
Thank God you're here! I was afraid I'd killed this thread with one post.
I haven't really studied anything, either. I was just giving a best-guess answer based on timelines, and comparing the development of certain genres as things moved forward. I don't even claim to be accurate about any of this.
But it's not bad for someone who's only been back into it for 3-1/2 years.
Quote:
And I think even the modern anime industry is realizing how great the styles of those shows were, which explains why Cyborg 009 and Kikaider rock that excellent old-school flavor that makes it seem so retro it's almost new...
Astro Boy, Johnny! Please tell me you didn't miss it yesterday...it was beautiful, crappy replacement techno music not withstanding. _________________ "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."- C.S. Lewis
"Superman can't be emo. He can't cut himself."-CP
Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:54 pm
Fodder
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Post subject:
Now lets go into timelines. Name the shows directly that you think really changed anime. OAV/Movies work to. To me StarBlazers, made in 1974, seemed to be the first of the modern animes. Gundam, Macross (robototech), even Voltron can all be proven to have come from that. I believe G-Force, battle of the planets, was made post StarBlazers. On a side note im suprised no ones remade that series yet. But you move 5 years later and your into Gundam 0079. Was Gundam that much different then StarBlazers in its animation or story telling? Would Macross or Transformers, being serious, be a benchmark for 1983-1984? Macross had the story and plot. But Transformers opened up anime to the mainstream.
Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:57 pm
Nobuyuki
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Everything builds on its predecessors, by experimenting with combining different story concepts, refining old ones, and pure copycatting the successful ones to make money.
Fodder wrote:
To me StarBlazers, made in 1974, seemed to be the first of the modern animes. Gundam, Macross (robototech), even Voltron can all be proven to have come from that. I believe G-Force, battle of the planets, was made post StarBlazers.
Science Ninja Team Gatchaman-1972
BotP is basically Power Rangers (hero team) animated. The team concept gets developed into I-don't-know-how-many shows, and "Voltron" tosses in the gestalt (combining) robot concept from Getter Robo.
Space Cruiser Yamato- 1974
I still feel the mecha shows derive from "Mazinger Z"- (1972), which moved the pilot of the robot from a remote control on the ground to sticking him in the machine. But Mazinger and his ilk (and Gigantor before them) would be considered superheroes, like Batman or Superman.
Quote:
But you move 5 years later and your into Gundam 0079. Was Gundam that much different then StarBlazers in its animation or story telling?
I think it's that Gundam shifted the focus of the story away from the robot heroics and onto the drama of the pilots and their lives. Throw in a war story, and it's kind of an amalgamation of Star Blazers and Mazinger.
Macross refines the idea, including the "quest" concept of Star Blazers while also throwing in transforming mecha.
Quote:
Would Macross or Transformers, being serious, be a benchmark for 1983-1984? Macross had the story and plot. But Transformers opened up anime to the mainstream.
I'd call it even, although Transformers isn't anime.
And I can't guarantee the accuracy of anything I've just written. _________________ "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."- C.S. Lewis
"Superman can't be emo. He can't cut himself."-CP
Sun Jan 18, 2004 6:55 pm
JohnnyPsycho
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Post subject:
btw, I missed AstroBoy... I feel like such a hypocrite now, since less than a year ago I was defending the grandpa of old-school anime... oh well... _________________ "The principles you live by create the world you live in; if you change the principles you live by, you will change your world." -Blaine Lee
"I plan to live forever. So far so good." -Steven Wright
Sun Jan 18, 2004 7:51 pm
Fodder
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Post subject:
Ok tired brain here. But wasnt Transformers based on an anime? Or was it just based on an older set of toys? I think thats where my confusion is.
And Mazinger (Tranzor Z is never mentioned in that link as its american name) and Gundam brough the pilot into the mecha. But not completly as an intergrated piece. Mazinger and gundam both had flying machines that merged with the robot to make it work. Macross and later Gundams have the pilot as an intrictate part of the mech. But im grasping at straws
GForce and StarBlazers are the shows i remember as a kid. Robotech is the show i remember as a teen. DBZ is the anime i remember as an adult. I guess these three are what i consider the ones that changed how i watched cartoons. But i also touched on the movies as well. Such as Fist of the North Star, parodied so well in Dragonball btw.
Ok just to throw another curve ball. Even though it was american. Would you consider Heavy Metal an anime? It didnt fit any mold of any american animation at the time. And it and Fist of the North Star share a lot of the same animation styles. Watch them back to back, i dare you, and you will see what i mean
/rambling
Sun Jan 18, 2004 11:02 pm
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Post subject:
I can give little to claiming what older animes set standards for less older ones, I do believe I have a clear view on how the anime styles of storytelling (or at least a few of them) are headed. 08th MS seemed to be a leap forward in quality that we are now seeing in some newer animations (ROD, Saikano). I know we've had other pieces of eye candy, but Miyazaki's works seem to exist in a universe of thier own, and it seems that 08th MS Team inspired the level of prettiness seen in a lot of animes. Of animes made since, the ones that stick out in my mind are Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Azumanga Daioh, and Saikano. I'm sure there a lot more that are going to be setting genre standards, but these are the ones I've seen and feel I can personally comment on.
Trigun: This shows an increasing standard (and sets it higher) in a completely cohesive storyline, driving one or a few basic principles so well as to leave one awe struck. It shows a want and abililty for this style of cinematography to convey a strong, intentional message (specifically, don't kill anyone, and why you shouldn't).
Cowboy Bebop: I can't really explain this one, except that it was fun. The quality of character design and music shone well, on top of a well designed setting. This anime, to me, showed just how well a hodge-podge constructioon of an anime could be executed, given the right talent.
Azumanga Daioh: Though we can't really see any effects of it yet (as it's inspirees are just coming down the pipe in Japan), this anime sets a premiere level of Shoujo anime. It, and the manga it's based off of, show the ability of a director to create such intimate and familiar character archetypes as to tap into its target audience's feeling better than any I've known. There is no sci-fi in this anime, no out of the ordinary happenings--just the lives of six High School girls, a few pets, and three (one of them very disturbing) teachers. It's also very pretty.
Saikano: This is the most brilliant piece of animation I've ever seen. Just watch it and judge for yourself. Buy the DVDs as they release, no questions asked. This is by far the best anime ever. Really. _________________ This space left intentionally blank.
Last edited by John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo on Tue Jan 20, 2004 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Mon Jan 19, 2004 3:30 pm
Nobuyuki
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Fodder wrote:
GForce and StarBlazers are the shows i remember as a kid. Robotech is the show i remember as a teen.
Same here, minus Star Blazers.
Quote:
DBZ is the anime i remember as an adult.
This one not so much, although I did see Dragonball on satellite once.
My experience was with the old Streamline Pictures and other studio releases that I'd also catch on the old C-band dish occasionally. That's where I first saw movies like Project A-Ko, Wicked City, Golgo 13, Dominion Tank Police, and Vampire Hunter D. And I was like, "WTF?", because real life had intruded and I'd fallen out of the animation loop, thus I had no idea something like this existed. Of course, in the process I also learned that "Cliff Hanger" was actually some guy named Lupin.
Then, one night I rented Akira.
*rewind, repeat*
After that, reality kept rearing its ugly head, but I kept an eye out for other mature animated movies. And when Sci-Fi started their animation block (back when the channel was good), I'd try to stop in and catch up.
Quote:
Ok just to throw another curve ball. Even though it was american. Would you consider Heavy Metal an anime? It didnt fit any mold of any american animation at the time.
I'll take your word for it regarding the comparison, since I've never watched FotNS, but I think Heavy Metal can trace its roots back to the movies of Ralph Bakshi. Personally, I would consider mature animation like Fritz the Cat, Wizards and American Pop as more of an influence on Heavy Metal. Never mind the fact that I think Bakshi's a hack, I did watch his films in college during film festivals.
The fact that I'm not well-read on the 80's releases is the main reason I haven't really commented on them. I imagine that Japan's economic prosperity at the time led to the explosion of OVA titles, as well as influenced the dystopian settings of such films as Akira, Patlabor and Bubblegum Crisis, reflecting the underlying mood of the happy times.
Much the same way the boomer years of 1950's USA's sugar-coating of social problems such as the threat of nuclear holocaust, social inequality, the loss of personal identity and rampant consumerism were reflected in the subtext of that era's films.
Call it the "Silver Age".
This is all personal conjecture on my part. I have no factual basis for any of it.
P.S. Rock & Rule>Heavy Metal. I can't wait for the re-release. _________________ "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."- C.S. Lewis
"Superman can't be emo. He can't cut himself."-CP
Tue Jan 20, 2004 2:16 am
Fodder
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Post subject:
There was a Heavy Metal 2. It didnt seem quite the same.
BTW when your talking about Cliff Hanger are you talking about the old Laser Disk game in the arcades?
Tue Jan 20, 2004 10:47 pm
Nobuyuki
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Fodder wrote:
BTW when your talking about Cliff Hanger are you talking about the old Laser Disk game in the arcades?
Yes.
We've covered this before, a long time ago. _________________ "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."- C.S. Lewis
"Superman can't be emo. He can't cut himself."-CP
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)
), and "Urusei Yatsura/Lum" (harem comedy) were released.
