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  Toonami Infolink :: View topic - HAH! Take that Zemeckis you damn dirty sonuva bitch!
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HAH! Take that Zemeckis you damn dirty sonuva bitch!

 
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Andromaton

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Joined: Nov 17, 2003
Post subject: HAH! Take that Zemeckis you damn dirty sonuva bitch!
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Manohla Dargis, in reviewing THE POLAR EXPRESS in today's NY TIMES, makes a few good points worth posting here:

"The Polar Express" is a grave and disappointing failure, as much of imagination as of technology. The largest intractable problem with "The Polar Express" is that the motion-capture technology used to create the human figures has resulted in a film filled with creepily unlifelike beings.

...With their denatured physiognomy, the human characters in "Polar Express" don't just look less alive than Gollum; they look less alive than the cartoon family in Brad Bird's "Incredibles." It's baffling that Mr. Zemeckis, who can make the screen churn with life, didn't see how dead these animated characters look. It's particularly puzzling since the director's finest work has been actor-driven movies like "Back to the Future, Part II," rather than special-effects-laden duds like "Death Becomes Her."

Animation is engaged in a debate that pits traditional and computer-assisted animation against computer-generated animation. The idea that anyone loves "Finding Nemo" because it was made wholly on a computer is absurd, but behind this debate lies a larger dispute not only about animation, but film's relationship to the world as well. On one side of the divide are Pixar visionaries like Mr. Bird and the "Finding Nemo" co-director Andrew Stanton, who either know they can't recreate real life or are uninterested in such mimicry, and so just do what animators have always done: they imaginatively interpret the world. On the other side of the divide are filmmakers like George Lucas who seem intent on dispensing with messy annoyances like human actors even while they meticulously create a vacuum-sealed simulacrum of the world. But there's something depressing and perhaps instructive about how in the attempt to create a new, never-before-seen tale about the wonderment of imagination these filmmakers have collectively lost sight of their own.

The films get an equally lukewarm reception at the L.A. Times. Hopefully this equals out to a disapointing box office. But wait, Zemeckis said this wasn't an animated film so I supose this is in the wrong forum.
PostWed Nov 10, 2004 1:15 pm
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counterparadox

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Spooky? Do you have issues with Zemeckis that you have not shared with us? Because it seems like you harbor some malice towards him.

Granted, the Polar Express looks like a peice of shit movie that had a lot of potential. But still. Is there something aside from this that we should know about?
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PostWed Nov 10, 2004 2:01 pm
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Andromaton

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Oh I shared it but I'll share it again. The follow came word for word out his mouth:

“I think when you see the movie, you’ll realize it’s absolutely nothing like an animated movie,� Zemeckis said. “You’ll see such subtlety in the performance of these characters that you would have to have the genius-of-all-genius animators. In my opinion, there’s no animation in the world that could have created it.�

Pissed me the hell off.
PostWed Nov 10, 2004 2:46 pm
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AdmiralGreer

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Just to spite all of you naysayers, I think I'm going to see it. And I'm going to like it.

And Androspook, you might want to explain why you don't like it- I see the comment, but you don't explain why it enrages you.
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PostWed Nov 10, 2004 7:56 pm
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counterparadox

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Yeah. What he said. Well, aside from it being boastful as all hell and the snipets of animation I've seen aren't even all that great . . .
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PostWed Nov 10, 2004 8:23 pm
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Andromaton

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Basicly was the fact he said his lifeless pieces of shits were more alive and more subtle in their movement, body language, and such then anything an animator could produce-- let me rephrase that last bit-- then anything even the best animators in the world could produce.

Fucker also basicly said he thinks it is to good for you to consider it an animated movie...
PostWed Nov 10, 2004 8:39 pm
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counterparadox

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Ahh, you take it as an afront to hand-drawn animators. I understand now. When I hear the word animation, I think of both hand drawn, and digitally made. So when I heard what he said, I assumed he meant that he thought his creations were better than anything, say, Pixar could produce. Which would still be wrong. But not quite as wrong.
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PostWed Nov 10, 2004 10:13 pm
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Andromaton

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Not quite, I take it as afront on animators in general. Pixar, Dreamworks, Blue Sky and a bunch of videogame and efects studios could kick the crap out of PE's piles of... well, crap.

They took the motion capture information and stuck it on the 3d models. That's it. No tweaking. Nothing. Nothing but cg rotoscoping. He meant that his picture, Polar Express, puts Pixar, Disney, Ghibli... along with everyone else to shame.
PostWed Nov 10, 2004 11:20 pm
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gfpaperboy22

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visually, it isn't anything special. The only animated film that had characters that looked 'human' was FF:TSW. Also, I refuse to see this film. I loved the book growing up and every preview i've seen has crap in it that was never in the book.
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PostWed Nov 10, 2004 11:48 pm
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Andromaton

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Here is Jerry Beck's "review" of Polar Express.

This isn't so much a review than it is a rant.

I saw THE POLAR EXPRESS today, and my immediate take is: It's awful. The INCREDIBLES is so much better a film in every way, I can't wait to see it a third time. It's like a new song that get's stuck in your head and you just have to hear it again.

Not so THE POLAR EXPRESS. It never grabbed me. I waited. I gave it chance. But I just couldn't get past those fake looking "people": the kids, the conductor, the elves.

It's funny, all the artificial enviroments - props, the train - all of that looked photo real. All of the things that were real (the mo-cap actors) looked fake.

As I was watching the film, I kept thinking about how this could have worked for me - and I came up with two solutions. The first, I would've placed real actors in a CG world (ala SKY CAPTAIN). It might've been a truly breathtaking adventure that way. My other idea would have been to have the opening five minutes and closing five minutes shot on real sets with real actors, in live action. The real boy goes to sleep at the begining and wakes up at the end. The film is his dream - they say so several times in the film, as is. The CG/mo-cap would've worked for me as a visualization of a dream.

Some people won't have a problem with this film. People in my audience, when it was over, were talking about how much they loved it. I may be in the minority here - but I thought the whole thing was a waste of major talent. Tom Hanks is a great actor, Zemeckis has made many films I really admire, Sony Imageworks can do amazing work - but this is an experiment gone terribly wrong. Don't waste your time.
_____________________________________________________________

And here is Amid Amidi's lil blurb on it.

I can't think of anything sweeter than watching Zemeckis and Hanks fall flat on their faces with the absolutely pathetic opening of POLAR EXPRESS. The film, which cost well north of $250 million to produce and market, couldn't muster better than a $23.5 million weekend, a financial performance almost as decrepit as the film's visuals. Hopefully now that they've been taught, Bobby and Tommy will crawl back onto their live-action sets and halt this make-believe fantasy that they're animation producers. Leave animation to the people who have actually bothered to learn the craft and who have dedicated their lives to the art form - artists like Brad Bird, whose INCREDIBLES managed to pull in another $51 million in its second weekend. Just for laughs, here's an encore presentation of Zemeckis' delusional appraisal of his animation skills: "I think when you see [POLAR EXPRESS], you'll realize it's absolutely nothing like an animated movie. You'll see such subtlety in the performance of these characters that you would have to have the genius-of-all-genius animators. In my opinion, there's no animation in the world that could have created it."
PostMon Nov 15, 2004 1:43 pm
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ROBRAM89

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If he keeps talking like that there's gonna be a Zemekis cult in a few years. He sounds like he thinks he's the Messiah.
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PostWed Nov 17, 2004 8:22 pm
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