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Post subject: BIG O Season two Discussion- SPOILERS!!!
Ahead be spoilers.... ye be warned.
Ok. I am thouroughly confused as to what the bloody hell went on in season two (and a little bit for season one, for that matter.) Season one was fine though... but the ending of season two confused me so much that it made my brain hurt. Seriously. WTF? There were a thousand different ways they could have ended it, and they chose the most confusing, disappointing, and idiotic endings a series could have had. And the whole message that "Life is just a stage?" That was so goddamned trite I almost cried. Shame on you, creators! And another thing- switching between opening intros? PICK ONE! DAMN IT! At least season one had consistancy! SHEESH!
I'm shake my head at you, Big O.
Anyway. So- from what I can guess- there were really two "Angels"- the first being the one that was looking for memories, and the second being the "director" of the world. The first Angel apparently WAS (no, not the deius of) Big Venus- 'cause after she and that old rosewater guy got to the (top?) floor of the "stage," things started getting batshit crazy. (Not that they weren't before...) So apparently everyone was just a hologram? What??? Well, that would certainly explain why no deaths were ever reported after the Mega Dueces fought. Or was it just that damn convenient that those areas (pretty much the entire city) was desolated and empty anyway? Jesus- even the characters of DBZ had the courtasy to find a desolate area to fight in!
And Jesus- the property damage! How the fuck did anyone get anywhere after the dueces fought anyway?? The roads were all smashed up- not to mention the giant wholes BIG O left in the gorund upon arriving or leaving! You'd think SOMEONE would have the sense to just ... I dunno... GO DOWN THE HOLES AND FOLLOW BIG O??? Any WHY weren't there riots!? There seemed to be so fewer officers than there were people- WHY DIDN'T THEY REVOLT?! AGH!
And did anyone else notice that there wasn't one situation where Big O could just step on the bad guy? The only criminal that seemed to have even half-decent reasons for his doings was Michael Seabach- the reporter whose Big rejected him(? not really certain about what really happened there- so much of it was confusing.) Oh, yeah, and that santa scientist guy for the Christmas episode. All HE did was make a giant freaking christmas tree... And yet BIG O was still needed to come and destroy yet MORE property.
Big O season two gets a "Boop boop" From me. It did NOT meet my standards- and people, that's pretty damn hard to do considering they're so low.
so... anyone else want to discuss this? _________________ For every second John Bono spends reading one of your posts, there is a second where I'm not getting any sex. Please be concise.
Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:08 am
Fodder
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Post subject:
Need to dig up my Big O thread. I reviewed each episode of season 2 as it premiered. But firstly
(/hug newbie)
Welcome to Toonami. Not mentioning Naruto and actually making a well thought out post. Especially on a subject that I feel almost passionate about.
Now enough of that. The end of season 2 was bad. It was a ripoff of the matrix, the truman show, and dozens of others attempts at "The world is a stage". As well as not following the logic of season 1. But understand first how season 2 was produced. After season 1 was made it got decent ratings on CN. But there were no plans for season 2. So CN went to the animation house and paid for season 2. You can imagine the budget was pretty tiny. And it shows in different ways in Season 2. Mostly notably in the body models. Things like the sharpened exagerated feet, hands and generally lower level look to the models.
Plus they would have also needed the marketing money to justify season two. So you had the Megas version of Big O (although Big O 2 was before Megas. But you'll get the idea). Which is to stuff him full of a million new weapons for Roger to use. And make no reasoning or excuses as to why it wasnt used in season 1. Remembeing that in the Seabach battle in season 1 he actually uses the chains to hang from the dome. Where if that battle had happened in season 2 he would have just gotten rocket packs from his back or something. All in the name of selling more toys. But the toys needed to help pay for the series. And yes i have most of them.
The property destruction question could be answered away by saying "Well if they were just computer sprites they didnt care about the constant destruction. And the computer would just delete and rebuild that corner anyway". But this applies to a lot of other cartoons as well. I believe someone once posted "The number one job in Gotham is construction". At least in Justice League Unlimited there is hell to pay for all this destruction as we are finding out as the series goes on. But the destruction thing in Big O takes a weird turn in the final episodes because Rosewater is declaring himself the ruler of the city (which he already was) while destroying it and expecting people to follow him. Something people typically do while a city falls around them. BTW if you didnt catch it the "bombs" were actually the stage lights falling. Although the question of "Why stage lights in a computer constructed world? Hell why a stage undergound?" kinda sneaks up and takes over in your brain right?
Man am i ever overanalyzing
Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:31 am
Fodder
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Post subject:
There is a website that goes really deep into season 1 and 2 as well. Need to dig that one as well.
Concerning the two angels. No there was only one Angel. And we were following her as the love interest /eye candy since season 1. I didnt like how that resolved for several reasons. First you have a bunch of revolutionaries(sp?) that live outside the domes. The unwanted and unwashed people. The "foriegners" as they were called in season 1. Season 1 never hid the fact that this was taking place in New York city. From the currency to the mention of the rivers to a dozen other references. And Angel was from France I believe. She was a spy sent out to overthrow Rosewater. But this aspect of the plot was never really examined. Most of the mech battles were over simple robbery. We did have one over revenge with the bomb mechs. But most were over simple robbery.
Why wouldnt the people go into the underground you asked. Well this was explained away in season 1 very early on. Roger talks about how everyone believes in ghosts and other things that live under the city. But that he uses it to his advantage. Of course if your hiding a double wide train to move a mech around with. Why have it blow its horn? This kinda gives away its location and there isnt anyone else coming. But moving on. Thats why no one looks. If the end of season 2 is to be believed its because the computer instructed them not to look. But if this was to look like a living breathing city. It doesnt make sense because under the domes would have been a whole other world to support the domes. Every play Sim City? You understand whats underground.
I dont like how they explained away Rogers dreams either. This is another part of the plot that seemed to have gone away. The war Roger dreamed about with all the Big's could have just been as easily season 2. And since they were going for selling toys and having silly plot lines. Well I wonder why they didnt. They tried to keep the film noir feel of season 1 going but failed. Remember in season 1 Rosewater was a bit player really. His father played a larger part then he did.
Really im going to deep into this. I'll stop here. Feel free to reply.
Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:40 am
KingSpanky
Joined: Dec 25, 2004
Post subject:
omg... you're still a virgin aren't you?
Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:02 am
Fodder
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Post subject:
I have two kids with a third on the way. There is a point before you lose your virginity and after you get married that males get this way. You'll learn.
Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:14 pm
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Post subject:
You know Fodder, LLG's been here since October of last year. She just doesn't talk much on the board.
Oh, and I agree that the ending was totally lame. The standard explanation of "Paradigm city had to be put down for some reason" would have made a lot more sense (and a lot bigger mecha battles). _________________ This space left intentionally blank.
Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:58 pm
Fodder
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Post subject:
Oh well then shes not a newbie sorry. Should have looked at the join date. After all the new people joining. Well I made an assumption.
And yes it would have been better to do a war for teh second season. But thanks to how they messed with the show in season 2. I really dont think we will see a season 3.
There were a lot of plot holes left open as well. Mostly surrounding Angel and especially around Dorothy. There was enough material there for a couple seasons worth.
Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:19 pm
LLG
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
Post subject:
Fodder wrote:
Most of the mech battles were over simple robbery. We did have one over revenge with the bomb mechs. But most were over simple robbery.
How were most of them over "simple robbery"? The only person who was really trying to steal stuff was Beck, and he only caused three of the fights in season 1, and then, only two of the battles in season 2. Even Seabach wasn't trying to steal something... he was just trying to destroy the heiarchy (sp?) of Paradeigm City. His whole motive was to try and get the people to realize the turth of things. Other people, including the man who used Instro (or is it Minstro?) to cotrol that mega (constantine?) just wanted to destroy the city. The other bad guys- Including the one who mutated Pero (the kitty kitty ) had other motives than "simple robbery." There was also the episode that introduced the Hydra. That was one of the few episodes I can recall that had little to no property damage- in fact, the citizens of that city benefitted from it.
I'm sorry, Fodder, but I can not agree with you that most of the battles were over "simple robbery." It seems that most of the people wanted a) revenge on Roger or b) revenge on Paradeigm City. Or, c) they were just batshit crazy. :p _________________ For every second John Bono spends reading one of your posts, there is a second where I'm not getting any sex. Please be concise.
Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:38 pm
Fodder
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Post subject:
Someone who knows Big O better then me. I bow before you.
Been awhile since I watched the series. Your right I thought that at least half the battles were over robbery. Of course the battles you listed were season 1's.
Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:57 pm
LLG
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
Post subject:
^^; The only reason I seem to know it better is because I just finished watching it last night... *cough* But yes, you are right. I did just site fights from season 1. However, season two had even fewer robberies as Beck only appeared three times, and the last time he appeared, he had nothing to do with the fights. The first episode he reappears in was the one where he kidnapped Roger. And mind you, Season two also provided the introduction to "the Union." From then on it was revenge and assassination- with exception of the new Hydra episode- but even that can be blamed on the woman from The Union, seeing as she (being the bomb crazy chick she was) released the Hydra onto Paradeigm. The last three or four episodes where all pretty much one continuous battle mixed in with some bad cut scenes and some confusing flashbacks. By the time it was all over, you had this mangled thing that once resembled a storyline. I agree Fodder. The matrix/Truman show/ Shakespeare/Batman rip-off mixture was like an experimental color gone wrong- they were aiming for mega-silver, but got baby-poop green instead. And I say it’s a Batman rip-off as well because 1) wealthy, tall, dark, handsome, 2) good with the ladies- not to mention that “Angel� is pretty much the “cat-woman� of the series, 3) he has a butler that helps him and patches things up (for Bruce, it was his own body, for Roger, Big O’s.) 4) Dorathy can be loosely (very loosely) compared to Robin as they both were orphans, were under the wealthy man’s protection, and could complete amazing acrobatic feats (yes, I realize that Dorathy is an Android, and a girl, but the similarities are there.)
The Truman show comparison was obvious enough in the last episodes, what with the stage within the stage. Shakespeare... well, duh, and the matrix thing where everything is fake, that the world you see isn’t really there... Gah! Baby-poop green, people!
_________________ For every second John Bono spends reading one of your posts, there is a second where I'm not getting any sex. Please be concise.
Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:18 pm
Fodder
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Post subject:
The Batman thing extends to both his watch as well as the Batmobile.
It might be time for me to go back and rewatch the series. Its been awhile since I watched them. But season 2 has a lot of things I just have a hard time sitting through. Remember I actually waited each week for the premier of season 2 and had a chance to digest each episode. The fact that a large part of each episode were flashbacks to season 1 bugged me as a cost saving measure.
One of the really bright points of season 2 was Roger seeing himself in modern New York (I apoligize if my mind is completly off here but this is how i remember it). Where he was looking up at the Sun. The fact that there was no domes and seeing basically modern life. As well as seeing his home as a bank. After watching episode 26 we know it to be an earlier version of the program. But really it could have taken another interesting tangent for the series. Which in the end it didnt. I did like the picture of the elder rosewalter in his youth hiring Roger though.
But the tomato thing was pushed way to far. It also being another sidestory that wasnt exploited. Showing Roger as some kind of clone and as a child.
That should give you some reading material on BigO for awhile.
Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:36 pm
LLG
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
Post subject:
I completely agree with you on those points, Fodder. And yes, you were correctly remembering that episode where Roger is a wanderer. In fact, the name of the episode was "Roger the Wanderer." It was an interesting episode, but a little confusing. And I hated how they kept calling themselves "Tomatoes." UGH. I'll read the material tonight, when I'm not helping customers... ^^; I'm a bad girl... I'm posting from work. *cough* Anyway.
And, I have to say, Roger's head was shiney as a child. _________________ For every second John Bono spends reading one of your posts, there is a second where I'm not getting any sex. Please be concise.
Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:42 pm
Fodder
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Post subject:
Which is how most of our heads turn out as adults. Im re-reading the 25 pager myself actually to reacquaint myself with it. Plus im seeing how bad my spelling and grammar were. Oh well I look forward to discussing it more here.
The last episode really doesnt leave an out for season 3.Which really is the biggest suprise.
Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:49 pm
LLG
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
Post subject:
did you notice how lazy the animators got with Big Venus? Basically Big Venus was just the beat up Big O with inverted colors. Ooo... And how they used the same freaking sound bits over and over and over and over! And not to mention, the same scenes. Damn- it's hard to imagine this is an easy series to make an AMV from.
Bagh. Rantage. _________________ For every second John Bono spends reading one of your posts, there is a second where I'm not getting any sex. Please be concise.
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) had other motives than "simple robbery." There was also the episode that introduced the Hydra. That was one of the few episodes I can recall that had little to no property damage- in fact, the citizens of that city benefitted from it.
