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  Toonami Infolink :: View topic - Racism 101
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Racism 101
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JohnnyPsycho

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Post subject: Racism 101
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I just wanted to touch on something that I know has been upsetting many of my white friends, and that is of how uncomfortable they get when a person of different racial or ethnic background uses racial slurs or racial humor. I myself don't find the use of derogatory racial slurs to be very humorous, and yet I still find myself using terms like "cracker" every now and then for humorous reasons. I realize that hurts some people's feelings, but you have to look at it from a brown-skin person's point of view. We've heard racist jokes all our lives and all have at least some point in our lives realized that we were considered "different" by society and had to deal with that exclusion in our own ways. One of those ways is to reclaim hurtful derogatory words. Black people use the word "nigga" as a way of taking the hurtfulness of that word away from racist groups of people. Yes, it is true that white people are now no longer allowed to use the infamous "N-word", and yet modern black pop-cultures uses it constantly. Is it necessarily right? I can't say that myself.

And yes, it is pretty sad when white people get so uptight about some light-hearted ribbing from the "colored-folk", but get over it. White America had a head-start on us, or don't you remember Black-face movies, Little Black Sambo, old Westerns where the Indians were portrayed by white actors as blood-thirsty savages, Charlie Chan, Dr. Fu Manchu, Hop Sing, Tonto, Apu the Indian Kwik-E-Mart clerk, Speedy Gonzales, old Westerns where Mexicans were portrayed as shiftless criminals, old movies where Asians were portrayed as shifty and untrustworthy "gooks", WWII-era movies and cartoon shorts like "The Little Nip", old movies that portrayed blacks as shiftless and lazy "porch negros"... just to name a few examples...

Get over it. It seems unfair, but now you know how it feels. Revenge sucks, don't it? Is it right for us "minorities" to use racial humor to our own enjoyment as opposed to being the butt of the joke? I really can't say. It certainly has empowered many black, Native American, Asian, and Hispanic comedians by taking these jokes and stereotypes back and destroying them from the inside, and yet it has a strange way of alienating white audiences. Of course, we've been alienated our whole lives, so who's to say we don't have the right?

What is your take on this issue? Mind you, I don't want to offend anyone or start any name-flinging. I want an honest and intelligent discussion on this matter, and I would hope that fellow net-geeks would know how to discuss things intelligently.

So, in other words, if you're not going to be constructive, just get the hell out right now.
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PostTue Nov 19, 2002 12:41 pm
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dougisfunny

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i don't think anyone wants to touch this subject

that or take the time to read all that and make a competent reply... that is tough too...
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PostTue Nov 19, 2002 1:25 pm
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Spookmonkey

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just wanted to touch on something that I know has been upsetting many of my white friends, and that is of how uncomfortable they get when a person of different racial or ethnic background uses racial slurs or racial humor. I myself don't find the use of derogatory racial slurs to be very humorous, and yet I still find myself using terms like "cracker" every now and then for humorous reasons. I realize that hurts some people's feelings. but you have to look at it from a brown-skin person's point of view. We've heard racist jokes all our lives and all have at least some point in our lives realized that we were considered "different" by society and had to deal with that exclusion in our own ways. One of those ways is to reclaim hurtful derogatory words. Black people use the word "nigga" as a way of taking the hurtfulness of that word away from racist groups of people. Yes, it is true that white people are now no longer allowed to use the infamous "N-word", and yet modern black pop-cultures uses it constantly. Is it necessarily right? I can't say that myself.


Yes and no. That['s the problem. They let it hurt their feelings. The reason your white friends get uncomfortable around racial jokes (not rascist, rascist means you say/do it to be mean/cruel) is because society (and if THIS sounds rascist, it's not) especially black society has been screaming out for racial retribution and castration for any and all who use those terms except their own. Word nigga. It's not just the blacks though. White society has excepted their screams of hatred and directed bigotry as their own fault and so teach their children to take the abuse. I don't advocate racsism, it's an evil that needs to be abolished, but not buy supressing the tendencies but by learning to determine what's real and what's just for humor and how to make everyone more accepting. The problem is that it's a two way street. Most people in america don't fall under the rascist card, but everyonre does have that one quirk that just really pisses them off. The racial jokes would lose all meanign if those few people who fit into the catagories suggested by the slurs would integrate themselves and better themselves. If not for them than the rest of their people. You don't have to be of another nationality or skin tone to realize your different. You just have to be picked on for something, anything at all.

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And yes, it is pretty sad when white people get so uptight about some light-hearted ribbing from the "colored-folk", but get over it. White America had a head-start on us, or don't you remember Black-face movies, Little Black Sambo, old Westerns where the Indians were portrayed by white actors as blood-thirsty savages, Charlie Chan, Dr. Fu Manchu, Hop Sing, Tonto, Apu the Indian Kwik-E-Mart clerk, Speedy Gonzales, old Westerns where Mexicans were portrayed as shiftless criminals, old movies where Asians were portrayed as shifty and untrustworthy "gooks", WWII-era movies and cartoon shorts like "The Little Nip", old movies that portrayed blacks as shiftless and lazy "porch negros"... just to name a few examples...


Oh, don't forget "Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips". I read "Comedy is the first step of acceptance into American culture" Apu and Speedy Gonzales are both examples of this. They are not shunned by their peers, Speedy has an antogonist, it's an american cat, and it always looses. Apu while he faces a bit more resentment from the residents of springfield isn't shunned or even looked down upon by his faith or religion (except during key episodes where they tackle a controversial topic, but he is always accepted back into the fold when they learn the truth about whatever). You're forgeting about the Irish. Blacks called Irish Americans "White Nigger" during the 1800's. The Irish had a damn hard time being accepted in america too, everyone did.

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Get over it. It seems unfair, but now you know how it feels. Revenge sucks, don't it? Is it right for us "minorities" to use racial humor to our own enjoyment as opposed to being the butt of the joke? I really can't say. It certainly has empowered many black, Native American, Asian, and Hispanic comedians by taking these jokes and stereotypes back and destroying them from the inside, and yet it has a strange way of alienating white audiences. Of course, we've been alienated our whole lives, so who's to say we don't have the right?


As I stated earlier. The white population of america has decided to carry the burdon on our backs of all the raciscism in this country. All of it. On top of all all we took responsibility for All the continuing rascism (by all people, not just whites) is being thrown on top of us. We need as a society to accept our own problems as our own and not pin them on others or take the blame for others transgressions. Basicly, everyone needs ot learn to be responsible for their own actions not those of others.

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What is your take on this issue? Mind you, I don't want to offend anyone or start any name-flinging. I want an honest and intelligent discussion on this matter, and I would hope that fellow net-geeks would know how to discuss things intelligently.

So, in other words, if you're not going to be constructive, just get the hell out right now.


You're a neener poopy doooky head! Yeah! Razz

Anyway, I think covered most of the topics ont he subject I wanted to.
oh, and this database of racial slurs is interesting. It's fairly extensive, it covers most of the words I've heard used, even some I hadn't. It also (which is nice) gives a brief explaination as to why they're called the name. I do not advocate the use of racial slurs. Just thought I'd throw that out as a bit of a disclaimer of sorts. You'll also note that the database has a rather big selection yto choose form for whites. Someone is rascist somewhere. Unfortunatly someone is usually everywhere. (though the bigger the city the less likely they'll pop their face up, the small and more backwoods you are the more likely they'll crawl out of the woodwork. It leas that's what I've come to know)
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Last edited by Spookmonkey on Tue Nov 19, 2002 2:55 pm; edited 3 times in total
PostTue Nov 19, 2002 1:39 pm
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dougisfunny

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I'm actually in the middle of taking a test otherwise i probably would reply... If what I did read is correct a response I would make is, I don't care about the racial remarks... I don't make them but i just don't care
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PostTue Nov 19, 2002 1:40 pm
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Goldfinger2K

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I'm not bathoered by racial slurs, however, i also don't use them. Most people aren't really bother by racial slurs, but I do have a friend that really is, she takes it very offensively. And i have heard people use racial slurs in derrogative ways much like "back in the day." Even a teacher once, i agree that it is a very serious matter when it comes to offense but some people can't juts let it go when the find things offensive. Somebody alsways has to say something and then it spirals out of proportion. I live in Miami, needless to say that whites are pretty much a minority down here, and I'm hispanic myself. I've never been offended by any racial tye of talk, or offended anyone by this "talk". We recognize that our race is different and we recognize the differences between them but do not discriminate upon them. and i think that this could be a better way to understand one another when it comes to racial issues.

peace
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PostTue Nov 19, 2002 3:57 pm
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counterparadox

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:::sigh::: I think America is missing the point.

First off, what bothers me is that black comedians can say anything they damn well please and people say 'OMG that's pretty damn hilarious!'. A white guy says the same joke and he's a RACIST. What. The. Hell. It's a funny joke. I agree. But why is it wrong for me to say it.

See, the black men and women (I refuse to say African Americans for the sole reason that political correctness is a waste of time, effort, and breath. I don't mean any offense AT ALL.) say, in essence, "We're the same as you. But we have our own culture and music and can say stuff that you jsut can't . . .but we are EXACTLY THE SAME AS YOU. " This is a paradox. People are stupid. People don't deal with paradoxes well.

What really bothers me is people who act all 'ghetto'. I get more annoyed by white people who try to act ghetto, though. But the whole attitude annoys me. And really, that's where a lot of the racism of today stems from. Minorities act different. Think about it. They act all 'ghetto', a good amount of ganga are made up of only minorities, petty theft is committed more by minorities (Not because they are minorities, but because they are in a situation where they have more of a need to do so in order to survive. Why? Because they can't get the good jobs since they are steryotyped as being theives. So they need to steal in order to ive, thus furthering hte steryotype.)

It's a vicious cycle. The question is, what should be done about it. In 2050, half the nation will be minorities. Spanish will be very prevalent, and I don't like learning new languages (seriously, language is my worst subject.) So what's going to happen?

I'd probably make much more sense if I didn't have a headache. Sorry if I said something really stupid and out of line. I don't ever mean any offense by anything I say. Not racial offense, I mean.
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PostTue Nov 19, 2002 5:40 pm
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Syndicate_Assasin

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Why the heck would you say something if you knew it was poking fun at someone elses race.This is just common sense.Everybody has pride and there's no reason to make people feel if they havn't done any thing to you.There's no reason to make racial remarks any way.Oh,yeah,and why are ther black colleges and entertainment networks but no all white colleges and entertainment networks.This is clearly reverse racism
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PostTue Nov 19, 2002 6:29 pm
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JohnnyPsycho

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Actually, considering the wide array of races and ethnicities among my closest friends, we use some god-awful racial slurs, jokes, and stereotypes around eachother, simply because we know we are only kidding each other. My Chinese pal (let's call him "Sig") calls all his white roommates "crackers", we make fun of one of my other pals (let's call him "Derek") for being a scrawny blonde white boy (he's of German and other indeterminate ancestry, so he's our nice little Aryan punching-bag/pal), I'm the big Native American/Indian/red-skin/"Casino-Owning American", another white pal (let's call him "Sheep-Boy") is my "white brother" as well as "white trash", "honky", "the oppressor", and "the Man" (which is hilarious considering this kid is so anti-establishment he couldn't possibly be anything close to "the Man"). I've got Hispanic pals ("Wet Backs", "Burrito Jockeys"), black pals ("Thugs", "Gangstas", "niggaz"), pals who speak Russian ("Damn Reds", "Ivan", "Vodka Pixies"), pals from Saudi Arabia ("Turban Heads", "Towel Heads", "Kwik-E-Mart clerks"), other Native American pals ("Timber N*ggers", "Skinz")... We all like each other just fine, and by constantly ribbing each other of our seperate race's stereotypes, we thereby distroy the validity of those stereotypes. None of my black friends steal cars or are in gangs (nor do they shuffle for anyone). My white pals are the furthest thing from being the "mean nasty oppressors". My Saudi Arabian pals are definitely not terrorists, nor is my Russian-speaking friend a Communist spy. I definitely am not a drunk, a mystical shaman, or a savage warrior. My pal "Sig" isn't much of a Kung-Fu expert, either. And I can't say that any of my Mexican, Cuban, or Puerto Rican friends drive low-riders.

Basically, I just think a lot of people who take offense to some comedians' use of racial humor are a little too brainwashed by the Political Correctness movement and aren't getting the fact that it's all good-natured ribbing, not to be taken seriously. Black comics who make fun of white people in the audience are simply saying "Hey! You're one of us now, so I'm gonna make fun of you just like you were one of us."

that's my take...
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PostTue Nov 19, 2002 6:49 pm
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JohnnyPsycho

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Syndicate_Assasin wrote:
Why the heck would you say something if you knew it was poking fun at someone elses race.This is just common sense.Everybody has pride and there's no reason to make people feel if they havn't done any thing to you.There's no reason to make racial remarks any way.Oh,yeah,and why are ther black colleges and entertainment networks but no all white colleges and entertainment networks.This is clearly reverse racism


Most colleges were all white colleges, and most TV networks were all white networks. Or don't you read your history?

Let's get another thing straight. You are the majority. The whole system was built around your ethnic heritage (white & Christian, though more specifically Anglo-Saxon Protestant). Black culture has come a long way to make itself its own identifiable culture. Remember how you used to be taught that America is a melting pot? Well, the reality is that us "others" like our own cultures, and would prefer to integrate ourselves into American society just far enough so as to be noticed and respected but not lose our own cultural identies. Black culture has an inherent right to set itself apart from mainstream "white" culture.

What many of you don't get is that just because we want equal treatment doesn't me we want to be you. Blacks want their own TV network or their own newspapers or their own universities where African-Americans can be educated by professors and books that aren't edited or changed by white perceptions. Same goes for Native Americans. Just because we want the right to state our own opinions doesn't mean we have to fully assimilate ourselves into the American collective culture.

Native Americans are prime examples, because we have our own sets of beliefs and customs, our own languages, and in most reservations and Native-owned lands, our own legal systems. We want to be treated fairly, but we don't necessarily want the "American Dream". We have our own dreams and beliefs. Don't think that just because you give us horrible commodity foods and government subsidies as well as funding from Federal government organizations and offices that we'll simply say "Okay, you win! We'll all cut our hair, bleach our skin, go live in the suburbs, buy from the GAP, etc. etc." Some may do that if they wish, that is their right. But others have just as much right to live in the old ways, hunting for food on their own lands, fishing in their own rivers and lakes, praying in the ways of their peoples (and yes, if praying includes the use of peyote, it is in those people's rights to use peyote or other hallucinagenics for ceremonial purposes), wear their hair long, vote for the Green Party or whatever.

Okay, I think now I'm done...
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PostTue Nov 19, 2002 7:04 pm
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Daikun

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Someone give me a reason why this thread isn't locked yet.
PostTue Nov 19, 2002 7:13 pm
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JJc14

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...i have a tendancy to shoot myself in the foot on these issues, so please don't kill me for the following (though i believe most of us are level-headed anyway)
---

...i think the main reason for people being uncomfortable over racial issues in this day and age is how we were raised...most of us were brought up in the '80s-early '90s, so many of us never experienced the heavy discrimination and racial issues of the first half of the century and could only learn it through our folks and history books...

...i would like to say that most of us were brought up to see others as equals, as our folks probably wanted to shield us from the environment they grew up in, or that's my take on it at least...

...i don't really know what i'm trying to say, but yea...


added:

oh yea, i wanted to relate that to the first statement about people feeling uncomfortable about that even though it's an obvious joke...since a lot of us were brought up in a more "embracing" time (at least compared to a few decades before), comments of that nature, even when purely joked about, may throw some off...i mean, i know there's been times when i've heard some comments and i don't got a clue as how to respond...

...i'm starting to question whether my opinion matters, as its become apparent to me that i can't really call upon prior experience to racism and discrimination...
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PostTue Nov 19, 2002 8:14 pm
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First off, Daikun, this thread hasn't been locked because a good debate every now and then is fun for some of us, and brings a little meaning to this board. The fact that we can hold a level, logical debate without killing each other sets us apart from other boards and makes us the only MB that I enjoy going to every day.

That was put in bold so that no one misses it.

Quote:
Basically, I just think a lot of people who take offense to some comedians' use of racial humor are a little too brainwashed by the Political Correctness movement and aren't getting the fact that it's all good-natured ribbing, not to be taken seriously. Black comics who make fun of white people in the audience are simply saying "Hey! You're one of us now, so I'm gonna make fun of you just like you were one of us."



And that is why Comedy Central Presents: Carlos Mancia (I think that's his last name . . . ) was so great. He made fun of people for not allowing each otehr to make fun of each other. It was pretty damn entertaining and enlightening.

Now then, here's why I don't like pandering to the minority. See, as a country, we aren't allowed to have the word 'God' in the pledge of alligiance anymore, even though it doesn't specify WHICH 'God' it means. Why can't it mean "Under whatever beliefs you may have or lack there of"?

Now stay with me here, it gets twisty: This leads to censurship. If we can't say 'God' in public, then we are censuring the word. Censorship is something we all hate. It's why DBZ used to be so butchered, and still is. It's why Card Captor Sakura was ruined. We all hate censorship, don't tell me it's your best friend.t no one misses it.

I'm not saying racists comments are right. They're not. But joking around should be understood as just that. I think it's funny when my backround is made fun of. I laugh along. Because if we can't take things lightly and laugh, then this world would suck.
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PostTue Nov 19, 2002 8:43 pm
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Goldfinger2K

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I completely agree.

peace
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PostTue Nov 19, 2002 9:47 pm
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JohnnyPsycho

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actually, I often feel as though I'm pandering to the majority most of the time. Here's an interesting quandrary:

In my house, we use words of all sorts of different origin on a daily basis, but the ones that used to bother me the most were the ones my parents used to refer to other races. My dad refers to white people as "kchi-mookiman" (Ojibwe), and my mom refers to white people as "haole" and black people as "popolo" (Hawaiian), and yet "outsiders" who look at this see it as though my parents are using some sort racial slurs when referring to these people by these words. These are simply the words my parents grew up using when referring to said "others", and often times it seems even to me that they are using these words deliberately in order to "secretly talk about whites and blacks behind their backs".

This is stupid, and I realized that after a while. My parents weren't being mean spirited by referring to white people as "kchi-mookiman" or "haole". They weren't secretly conspiring against said races of people. I realized that my hyper-sensitized "P.C.-meter" was picking up on something that was completely benign. Yes, us minorities are notorious for wanting to be respected and referred to by a certain title or titles (African-American instead of Black, Negro, or Colored; Asian-American instead of Oriental), and yet we are also among the first to keep to our own ways of referring to eachother. Hypocritical? I don't think so, necessarily. It just takes a while for everyone to be able to jump on the same bandwagon (or same ethnic-title, as the case may be). Plus it goes back to the idea of seperate cultural identities coexisting within a society without assimilation into a majority cultural identity.

Case in point, I know plenty of people who hate the phrase "Native American" because it makes it sound like this whole place was America the whole time. They identify with "Native American" just as much as they identify with "Indian". I have a sneaking suspicion that those in charge of assigning "Politically Correct Racial/Ethnic Monickers" weren't those who were necessarily a part of said racial/ethnic group. Just goes to show, you can't always please people even with your best intentions, i reckon...

So, use of what many people refer to as racial slurs often date back to simple words used to define a racial or ethnic group in that person's language. Sometimes the translation sounds bad, making the people who use the words seem like some sort of racist ogres. Are my parents hypocrites for using these words in a society that wants us all to designate "kinder, gentler" names for eachother? Am I too programmed into the P.C. culture, and just over-reacting? Is my case the same as cases where people came from homes in which black people were referred to as "niggers" or white people as "honkeys", "crackers", etc.? Are we all just a little too worked up on words, or do words really have such a powerful emotional impact? Is there really a way to dispell any negative power that words can hold?

Wow, I realize I just asked a lot of questions, but I think they're good questions to ask oneself.

[/RANT] heh heh heh
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PostTue Nov 19, 2002 9:48 pm
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Goldfinger2K

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I believe that words really DO have a lot of power. And that power is often misused in our societies.
It all depends on the message that the person saying the word is trying to communicate. And people often misunderstand, and sometimes things don't come out the way you want them to sound. Not just just with racial slurs, but any thing being said. And the fact that many people grow up very differently and say diffenrent things that they are taught is just an example of how little we really understand each other and shouldn't judge by first impressions, or even seconds. Like JP said, even HE sometimes believes that his parents are using racial slurs when to them it's no more than a word of reference.

peace
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PostTue Nov 19, 2002 9:57 pm
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