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Toonami Infolink :: View topic - Worst Super Power Ever
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"With great power comes great responsibility" applies to both of them equally.
When you boil it down, the biggest differences between Superman, Batman and Spider-Man are ones of the methodology used in meeting their objectives.
As far as methodology works out, I don't think I've read a book more about the subject than Kingdom Come (arguably one of the best stories ever told ever).
The promo poster for it somehow says it all.
The Dreamer.
The Thunder.
The Bat.
The Eagle.
The Angel.
Superman's purpose and idealology is cemented on the dream that people are good, that peace can be won without war. Which is why his characterization in KC works so well.
One last note: Most writers will tell you that it's really hard to write for superman. Most just cop out of actually trying to evolve and grow the character by making him a boyscout. Hence you're problem Robbypoo.
Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:29 pm
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Oh, I agree that that phrase is very true, but my point is that Superman was merely rasied to be a good little boy, whereas Peter Parker won't stop fighting for fear that his actions will hurt those that he loves. It's a question of motivation, and aside from "It's the right thing to do" I've never really seen Superman's motivation (Aside from people attacking Lois Lane, of course.)
Point is, realistically, if you suddenly found out you had super powers, most people would try to use them to make money (Which is what Spidey did) and then, since these powers came about in a short amount of time (as opposed to having to work for them and gradually appearing over the course of one's life, like muscle growth) the person would most likely take the easier way out and succumb to their whims (thus Spidey letting the crook escape who then kiilled Uncle Ben which is the underlying reason that Spidey never commits a crime.)
Hence, I love the idealized Supes, but I really can't pin down a firm, honest, and actual motivation. It's just not natural. Not everyone has the soul of Gandhi, you know. _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:19 pm
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Post subject:
And then some people do.
If I had Superman's powers, I would fight crime of course, but I would also be a construction worker or something.
I'd also be really good at DDR. _________________ This space left intentionally blank.
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:41 pm
Nobuyuki
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
counterparadox wrote:
Point is, realistically, if you suddenly found out you had super powers, most people would try to use them to make money (Which is what Spidey did) and then, since these powers came about in a short amount of time (as opposed to having to work for them and gradually appearing over the course of one's life, like muscle growth) the person would most likely take the easier way out and succumb to their whims (thus Spidey letting the crook escape who then kiilled Uncle Ben which is the underlying reason that Spidey never commits a crime.)
Agreed, Spidey had to learn things the hard way. He had been told this several times before he became superpowered, as a general life lesson, but the message really didn't hit home until Uncle Ben's death.
Since Peter didn't grow up with his powers the way that 'classic' Superman did, he didn't get to experience from childhood what he could do or the consequences of his actions the way Clark did. And Clark received basically the same advice growing up as Peter did. The Kents did their best to steer Clark away from exploiting himself for selfish gain. The memories of a utopian Krypton he had also also acted as a barrier against using his powers to exploit his adopted homeworld (wouldn't want to sully the Kryptonian legacy, you know ).
Quote:
Hence, I love the idealized Supes, but I really can't pin down a firm, honest, and actual motivation. It's just not natural. Not everyone has the soul of Gandhi, you know.
Because it's not natural. It's a lot easier to connect with Spider-Man or Batman. They are the ideal of what we can be (esp. Batman).
Superman is the ideal we aspire to be.
(as an aside, I love the speech near the end of Kill Bill 2) _________________ "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."- C.S. Lewis
"Superman can't be emo. He can't cut himself."-CP
Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:22 pm
just
Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Post subject:
Batman is 50 times better than Superman. But I wonder who's better out of Batman and Spiderman?
Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:07 am
WhtHawk
Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Post subject:
Batman.
While both are quite intelegent, Batman has more expierence and an incredible amount of resources to draw from. Spidy has...yea. _________________ To do two things at once is to do neither. —Publilius Syrus, Roman slave, first century B.C.
Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:29 pm
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
No, it all comes back to whether or not Bats has tim to prepare. If they meet on the street and just go at it, Batman's grapple hook is basically useless (as Spidey can web sling) and Spidey is stronger, more agile, and can stick to walls. So it really comes down to how much time Bats has to prepare. _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Sat Oct 23, 2004 3:09 pm
dougisfunny
Joined: Oct 29, 2002
Post subject:
well, if you throw that in Spidey ain't that shabby at planning ahead. Give him time to prepare, combine it with his spidey sense... _________________ The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:26 pm
Andromaton
Joined: Nov 17, 2003
Post subject:
The thing is though, is that Batman almost seems to have the power to figure out how to negate other peoples powers given enough tme.
Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:01 pm
Zechs
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Just in terms of wits Spidey is alot more Gung-ho and reckless. Batman has the mental ability to beat him any day. Not to mention Batman's gone plenty of uber-powerful enemies as well. He's not just limited to Pyscopathic bank robbers. _________________ Bang.
Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:26 pm
ROBRAM89
Joined: Feb 14, 2003
Post subject:
counterparadox wrote:
And thus you have tapped into a problem of our 'great' society: the need for people to call things either conservative or liberal.
Yes. problem. The very spirit of your argument is flawed. People need to stop going by party lines, or by simplistic words such as liberal or conservative, and start using their heads to look at the FACTS and decide what is right and what is wrong. Objectively right and wrong. Not what's best for you, but instead what is MORALLY RIGHT.
Superman was created way back in, I think, the 30s (lil Help Spook, Fodder, or Nubo?). So was Batman. And they have both evolved. Now, I will agree that Superman has rather week motives when one is to compare him with, say, Spiderman. But to say that he sucks because he's concservative?
WTF?
*Sigh*
I was using the terms conservative and liberal as representations of general ideologies...but, mostly, because the labels had been applied already. Superman is viewed as conservative and Batman is viewed as liberal, but if anything, they are reversed...these are no labels I applied to them, I simply rearranged them. Like I said, neither of them fits either mold perfectly...Supes, as much of a pacifist as he may be, uses force to get things done, and Batman is adamantly against guns. To phrase it in a way I won't get attacked for...
Superman is not the embodiement of conservative values he is often thought to be. He fights for truth, justice, and the American way, but he refuses to kill, or, for that matter, use most means that are sometimes necessary to get things done...Batman will. He deosn't trust humanity as a whole. Superman does. He will take life, presumably (although he is quite adverse to it, despite the fact that some of his villains just plain have it coming). Superman will not.
BTW: I just read KC today, in fact...quite good...although, it did seem to rely on the old "Boy scout Supes, creepy Batman" thing that I hate so much... The best moment in KC for me was seeing a copy of Under the Hood by Hollis Mason in a store window...I nearly got chills. _________________ I am Jack's Fight Club reference.
Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:47 pm
Andromaton
Joined: Nov 17, 2003
Post subject:
by the way, neither superman nor batman kill. both are abhorantly against it.
anyway, I just ran acrossed a quote which I thought was just to good not to post in here. it shows a side to supes that damn near never gets explored.
"You know what I got sick of, Bruce? You kicking the crap out of me with your toys. When you're nothing but a man. A man who got to stay alive only because I let you."
— Superman, SUPERMAN/BATMAN #2
Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:54 am
ROBRAM89
Joined: Feb 14, 2003
Post subject:
Batman/Superman (I refuse to give that overrated creep billing over the Dark Knight) is a quite good series, and, especially with its smartly written dual narration, it explores the relationship between the heroes very well...granted, DKR still showed what they REALLY think of each other instead of the childish rivalry they're usually represented as having. _________________ I am Jack's Fight Club reference.
Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:07 pm
just
Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Post subject:
Batman and Superman make a good team. Sometimes Superman's rigtheousness gets in the way. Batman is careless but skilled. I think Superman should get a little more edgy if he wants to really team up with the bat. Supperman always seems to have a bad day too. I mean how many times does one have to go through a building? _________________ "Charles Xaiver did more for mutants than you could ever know. My only regret is that he had to die for our dream to live." -Magneto, X Men3:The Last Stand
Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:08 am
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Batman is anything BUT careless. Mabye Terry is in Batman Beyond, but Bruce Wayne is smart, methodical, and knows what he's doing. IS he risky? Sure. But he is not careless. _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
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