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  Toonami Infolink :: View topic - What is Kikaider
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What is Kikaider
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Fodder

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Well I started this. So I shall continue it.

Saying the masks stay on out of respect is really a cop-out. A lot of shows do not have the alternate identities of the people modeled so they find work arounds. And that is what you are seeing here. No more no less. If they had respect for each other they wouldnt care if they were wearing thier cape and mask. I understand in Batmans case its one of my favorite scenes from Batman Beyond"

"Bruce how did you know the voices in your head weren't real?"

"They called me Bruce"

So yes his secret identity is bruce wayne and his real identity, in his mind, is that of batman.

Concerning the animation style. I did say that there were a couple battle scenes where it got better. The Justice Guild episode is probaly one of my favorites. It had an original story line. Made references to tons of different cartoons, comics and superheroes. The animation was above par for it.

But saying that the pilot for JL and for B:AS are respective of showing how each show improved. I don't accept that. Because by the pilot B:AS (hope im using the acronyms right here) already had a lot of its trademarks in it. And by the end of all the different series. It was starting to look worse when Batman and Superman shared that angular style. I couldnt help but look at the Batmobile and think of Freakazoid's "It's Toyorific!"

Speaking the JL pilot. It was a War of the Worlds Ripoff. And it didnt hide that. I think Orson Wells is walking in one of the crowds. But after all the leading up to the pilot hour. You think they would have given us something more orignal and less derivative

Seems I hit a nerve here. And I don't think I will let this thread die and not reply. For a group of animation lovers. You should really sit back and look at things again. Just like Nobruki and I are saying 10 years down the line its incredible to look at these shows again. They dont usually age that well. The first three seasons of B:AS. The first 48-50 of BB will both survive for decades and look as good today to our eyes as they did the first time they looked at them.

Tell me the plotline for a later JL so I can remember the episode and see if I can help you. When I am thinking of its animation I am talking about the truck that Flash stopped from hitting the building. And how it looked like it was hovering off the ground and drawn by a 12 year old malaysian on a limited budget.

We are all allowed to have differing opinions. But it is my belief that part of what this forum needs are discussions like these where we tear a show apart. And look at it from a technical and plot sides. Take Gundam Wing. The animation was passable, the plot line between weak and ok. But somehow a bunch of feel a need to think of is as great, including myself. Look at Robotech. A show that took 3 seperate series and redid the stories for all three. And its a show with a loyal cult following inclulding again myself.

My wife and I watch JL with our kids. I will not stop watching it no matter how i feel it looks. It is characters from my childhood. And I want to see them redone. I dont feel the same way about XMan Evolution because they changed to much. Or, dear lord help us, Transformers Armada. Which is just a train wreck.

No one wants to touch the Wonder Woman flying thing?
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PostThu Jun 12, 2003 2:26 pm
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Nobuyuki

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Fodder wrote:
Just like Nobruki and I are saying 10 years down the line its incredible to look at these shows again.

*cough* Or 30. Wink
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We are all allowed to have differing opinions. But it is my belief that part of what this forum needs are discussions like these where we tear a show apart. And look at it from a technical and plot sides.

No question. I'm glad to see the discussion.
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No one wants to touch the Wonder Woman flying thing?

Umm...it makes more sense than an invisible plane? -_-''
It's just a variation on jumping into the sky and riding the air currents, like she did in the Silver Age. Doesn't bother me a bit.

And Green-Bird got it in one, even if it's reallly spelled, "The Wings of Honneamise". Wink J/K
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PostThu Jun 12, 2003 4:25 pm
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counterparadox

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Toonami has alwyas said that they were dedicated to bringing us the best action cartoons on the planet. Nothing to do with press releases, they said it in the older promos.

As for Batman being underplayed, in some interview with the creator that I think Spook posted a link to a while back, they'r making a romance between Wonder Woman and Batman. Next tim you watch, keep that in mind. I've seen hints of it in the first season, and they're going to play it up more next season. So Batman will probably have a bigger role.

And I agree GL has been fleshed out more than the others. But there's only so much you can do with 7 main characters. Most shows have one. Give it time.

And I think it's funny how GL's name is John Stewart, like the host of the Daily Show. (I know, he wasn't named for him, I jsut think it's a funny coincidence.)
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PostThu Jun 12, 2003 7:45 pm
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Rycel

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I'm probably alone in saying this, but don't particularly like the John Stewart Green Lantern. Call me old-fashioned, but I think they should have just kept Hal Jordan as the GL of the Justice League. Sure I'm partial to Hal anyway, but his story is a little more compatible to the JL writers' style.

Now, by no means, do I have anything against Stewart's character. I just don't like the choices the writers have made concerning how they've developed him. Anyone familiar with Stewart's backstory (check it out here) could tell that they couldn't really gear it to as young an audience as CN is promoting it to. And his particular history is what makes him an endearing character. Unfortunately, John doesn't get the serious treatment he deserves.
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PostThu Jun 12, 2003 8:25 pm
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Fodder

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I believe his choice was made because it made the cast a little more rounded and not so fighting whitey.

Hey at least hes not voiced by shaq
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PostThu Jun 12, 2003 9:45 pm
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Rycel

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Fodder wrote:
I believe his choice was made because it made the cast a little more rounded and not so fighting whitey.

Hey at least hes not voiced by shaq

Hey, they could have had Black Vulcan (sorry..."Supervolt"), but they passed on him. Their loss.
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PostThu Jun 12, 2003 9:48 pm
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Fodder

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Actually there were many black superheroes. You could have gone with the black Ironman to. Though his new name escapes me. Warhammer?
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PostThu Jun 12, 2003 9:53 pm
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Rycel

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War Machine. But his story isn't quite as dramatic as Tony Stark's. They could have also grabbed Apache Chief, but again they opted for a semi-classical lineup.
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PostThu Jun 12, 2003 9:56 pm
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Spookmonkey

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Rycel wrote:
War Machine. But his story isn't quite as dramatic as Tony Stark's. They could have also grabbed Apache Chief, but again they opted for a semi-classical lineup.


You're crossing company lines there. War Machine is Marvel.

Anywho sorry fodder, debate goes on.

Quote:
Saying the masks stay on out of respect is really a cop-out. A lot of shows do not have the alternate identities of the people modeled so they find work arounds. And that is what you are seeing here. No more no less. If they had respect for each other they wouldnt care if they were wearing thier cape and mask.


You'll notice most episodes don't have all the characters in them. As far as we know they could be strutting around naked back at home while we watch the escapades of the other members. I think the only way we'll see any of them out of costume is when a story actually calls for it (such as the Darkest Night eps with GL)

Quote:
Concerning the animation style. I did say that there were a couple battle scenes where it got better. The Justice Guild episode is probaly one of my favorites. It had an original story line. Made references to tons of different cartoons, comics and superheroes. The animation was above par for it.

But saying that the pilot for JL and for B:AS are respective of showing how each show improved. I don't accept that. Because by the pilot B:AS (hope im using the acronyms right here) already had a lot of its trademarks in it. And by the end of all the different series. It was starting to look worse when Batman and Superman shared that angular style. I couldnt help but look at the Batmobile and think of Freakazoid's "It's Toyorific!"


Watch the episodes with Etrigan the Demon and Vandal Savage (thats the one where several members get sent back in time) and you'll see the improvements you want. As for the pilot episodes? I don't see a problem with a war of the worlds based storyline; it worked and set a good tone for the season. Besides, WotW is a great story to begin with.

With the animation improvents I wasn't talking about TNBA (the angular style). Watch the first few eps of B:TAS and then watch some of the last (The Lion and the Unicorn was the last Fox episode) and you will see the VAST improvments were made. TNBA style needed time to get used to; some of the characters clicked beyond perfectly, some didn't (coughJokercough). As for the vehicles, I think they went for a uniform look to give all the vehicles, a single style theme. If anything was Toyetic it was batman's personal flyer jet pack thingy... that was just lame.

There most certainly are things that need to be worked on in both the animation and writing department, especially for a show what has to live up to the previous outings Timm & Crew have done with them. PArt fo the problem is that a ton of the people that worked on the previous series have decided to take on other projects (Static Shock, Teen Titans, X-Men: Evolution, and more are all have ex-Timm crew players heavily involved with them). I expect to see vast improvments as they learn from the mistakes from the first season.

Oh yeah, Timm himself said that he can't watch some of the episodes from the first season of Batman without cringing from how bad the animation is (which is saying alot since even then they better than anything else animated on TV except maybe the Simpsons) he also stated the he realized the weaknesses of the first season of JL and that they worked hard to iron them out; specificly stating the writing was one of those things (He mentioned War World specificly).
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PostThu Jun 12, 2003 10:33 pm
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Zechs

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Hate to interrupt but I just wanted to get back to the main topic.

Tonight we finnaly found a reason why to put it on ASA. Blood...lots of bloddy blood. Oh, and of course the deep depressiing storyline and all the choking that the kids wouldn't really like. I think the main reason they opted for Adult Swim was to be able to show the full show and to appeal to an audience that would appreciate it for what it is instead of looking at the characters then throwing rocks at the tv till the characters look newer.

This story reminds me alot of megaman....except without the insane Gung-Ho way Mega solve's problems. This is pretty much the deepest I've ever seen a "machine who wants to be human" storyline go.

Plus his guitar is kickass.
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PostFri Jun 13, 2003 12:37 am
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nightfall

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It is now spring, obviously several months have passed since Gill's lab exploded. Mitsuko and Masaru are expectantly hopeful of Jiro's return. Jiro sadly looks back and walks away.

This is what I love/hate about serious anime: they leave it open.

Come on, people! I want my endings tied up neatly with a bow and tagged "happily ever after" or "and they all died in the end".

I heard mention of OAVs. Can someone at least let us know what happens in them? I want Jiro to come home, dangit!
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PostFri Jun 27, 2003 12:07 pm
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JJc14

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yea, there's a four episode ova that supposedly takes place after the series and it'll air next week...i don't know a thing about 'em though, so if you're looking for info before they air, i can't help ya...


as for the kikaider tv series itself, i rather liked it in the end...it started out as less than stellar but really built up over the short span of the series...i thought the final episode was done well and i found the ending very reminiscent of trigun, where they don't give you a "final" ending, but you feel like it's ended, which is good enough for me...
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PostFri Jun 27, 2003 2:13 pm
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Gundam0084

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After checking for info on the 2000(year it was made, that is) Kikaider anime(the one on Adult Swim now) at Anime News Network, I found out that it has 13 episodes. Currently, Adult Swim has only shown 12 episodes of it. I'm willing to bet that the final episode will be shown on Monday night(unless Cartoon Network is going to skip the last ep like 08 MS Team).
PostSat Jun 28, 2003 1:08 pm
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Gundam0084

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After checking for info on the 2000(year it was made, that is) Kikaider anime(the one on Adult Swim now) at Anime News Network, I found out that it has 13 episodes. Currently, Adult Swim has only shown 12 episodes of it. I'm willing to bet that the final episode will be shown on Monday night(unless Cartoon Network is going to skip the last ep like 08 MS Team).
PostSat Jun 28, 2003 1:08 pm
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Gundam0084

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Shocked Sorry for the double post(first post had an error).
PostSat Jun 28, 2003 1:10 pm
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