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Toonami Infolink :: View topic - Children + TV = Psychologists - Parenting
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cn2 revolution Japan japanese multimedia saban funimation toei graz harmony gold mainframe Tyler Zogg TylerLToonami Turner Cartoon Network Thundercats Voltron Space
Ghost Birdman Herculoids Dino Boy Galaxy Trio Mighty Mightor Moby Dick
Shazzan The
Impossibles Max Fleisher's Superman (a.k.a. Roulette) The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest Robotech Sailor Moon DragonBall Z Filmation Superman Batman Superfriends
ReBoot
Ronin Warriors G-Force Powerpuff Girls Batman: The Animated Series Gundam Wing Tenchi Muyo! Universe in Tokyo Superman Outlaw Star Big O CardCaptors Mobile Suit Gundam
O8th
MS Team DragonBall Batman Beyond Gundam 0080 Zoids: Zero Hamtaro Zoids: Chaotic Century Guardian Force G Gundam He-Man and the Masters of the Universe Transformers:
Armada
G.I. Joe .hack//Sign Yu Yu Hakusho Rurouni Kenshin QuickTime .mov MOV AVI .avi MPEG .mpg Movies movie Videos Clips Sounds articles rants essays images files CNX inner
circle
cn2 revolution Japan japanese multimedia saban funimation toei graz harmony gold mainframe Tyler Zogg TylerL
Case in point: I merely scimmed the article. Heh heh . . . heh *looks around sheepishly*
2 things can be inferred from this. a) the masses have short attention spans. I try to speak to as many people as possible. Thus, I find short answers to be a necessity. And b) the masses have short attention spans. Caused by 15 second commercials on TV. TV owns you if you allow it to. The only way for it not to own you is if you fight it tooth and nail. Thus proving one of my previous points.
I should go and actually read the article, shouldn't I . . . _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:56 pm
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
yeah, probably. _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
Stepping to the side a bit, is it bad if I don't fit Maslow's pyramid? Social acceptance and particularly self-esteem are at the small end of mine.
And, CP, we don't mind reading. If you have more info, GIMMIE!! _________________ Krogoth uses Berserk.
Attacks are enhanced but defense weakens.
"Wait, that's not the cure button ... "
Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:33 pm
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
the pryamid is much more than what CP or the little chart says. I'll see if I can dig up my old notes (hahahaha notes, that's funny) from psychology to help expand on it, you do fit, everyone fits. _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
It appears that I have stumbeled into a topic that is being discussed at a level beyond my education but I stand by my statement that guidence from roll models, hopefuly parents but sutible person could replace them, are key. If the TV takes the position of roll model, it is very likely that their ideas and morals will be those of the shows that they watch. As for my anime collection, it is very small. But you are right about consumerism, but rentals are a great part of capitalism.
BTW, explain away. I'm up for a little reading; this topic calls for well developed arguments. _________________ To do two things at once is to do neither. —Publilius Syrus, Roman slave, first century B.C.
Thu Feb 20, 2003 12:02 am
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Ok, I'm gonna explain Kolberg's 6 levels of moral reasoning since you all asked really nicely.
These 6 levels are ALWAYS achieved in order, and sometimes, saddly, people don't get past level 2 (which most of us here probably got out of when we were, I don't know, younger than 8?) The 6 levels define your motivation for doing anything moral. Also, the 6 levels are split up into 3 stages, which somewhat correspond to the Id, Superego, and Ego respectively. Though they aren't really the same, I'll split up the 6 levels into the sub-counscious that it corrisponds to.
Stage 1: the Id (Animal instincts)
Level 1: Fear of punishment. Mommy says "If you eat a cookie, you will be spanked" Junior thinks "I don't want to be spanked, so I won't do it."
Level 2: Personal Reward. Mommy says "If you do it, I'll give you a cookie." Junior thinks "Ok, but ONLY if I gain something from it, like a toy, or a COOKIE."
Stage 2: The Super-ego (Tape-recorder of all that you have heard, ever.)
Level 3: Good girl, Nice boy. Junior says "I'll hold the door open, because it's a nice thing to do."
Level 4: Law and Order. Junior says "I can't drive over the speed limit because it's against the law. Anything against the law is evil. Anything not against the law, is not evil."
Stage 3: The Ego (Personally vallidated, well thought out conscience)
Level 5: For the good of others. Junior says "I must obey the driving laws not because they are the law, but because it is important for the safety of all of us on the road. The laws are there as a guidline to protect us, and we must follow them so that no one gets hurt."
Level 6: Standing up for change ANYWHERE it is needed. Junior, now no longeer a junior, more like what a Man should be, says "That law is wrong. I must work to change it." Kolberg used Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., and Jesus as examples of this level. It should be noted that Kolberg was athiest, also.
Oddly enough, I found myself thinking "I need to obey the traffic laws so that no one else gets hurt" before I even knew that this scale existed. So I have a pretty good idea where I am on the scale.
It's really sad when people do not get out of level 2. It's really good when a lot of people gather that are on level 6. When you do something on a level lower than what you have achieved (say, do a level 4 act when you've reached level 5) you feel really stupid, childish, and jackassish. _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Thu Feb 20, 2003 12:41 pm
Force-Attuned_Krogoth
Joined: Nov 10, 2002
Post subject:
Yeah, I'm the same way. I try to take a holistic view of things, but I'm not quite at level 6 yet. I do intend to get there, or as close as is possible. Perhaps when I get an indication that I have the power to change the world, I'll be less apprehensive about trying.
Does anyone else not remember being in the Level 1 state? _________________ Krogoth uses Berserk.
Attacks are enhanced but defense weakens.
"Wait, that's not the cure button ... "
Thu Feb 20, 2003 6:41 pm
WhtHawk
Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Post subject:
I don't remember being in level one either.
CP, thanks for the explination. It makes a lot of things much clearer. I hadn't really thought about just how many people arn't in the upper levels of moral reasoning. Maybe that's why our country's morals are in the sewers. Are there any statistics about just how many people are stuck in the bottom levels? _________________ To do two things at once is to do neither. —Publilius Syrus, Roman slave, first century B.C.
Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:01 pm
Cooolcorey
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Post subject:
Hmm... reading these has intrigued me. It makes me want to get in on discussions like this, but i'm not sure if i'm qualified to make a statement about any of this. I haven't taken any psychology classes or anything like that, so I'm not sure that I'd know what I'm talking about.
Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:25 am
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
just don't be stupid and BE ready and willing to learn. If you are, then please, take part. _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
I've never had a Psychology class either. I agree with Spooky. If you are willing to have an open mind, join the conversation. _________________ To do two things at once is to do neither. —Publilius Syrus, Roman slave, first century B.C.
Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:28 pm
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
counterparadox wrote:
It's really sad when people do not get out of level 2. It's really good when a lot of people gather that are on level 6. When you do something on a level lower than what you have achieved (say, do a level 4 act when you've reached level 5) you feel really stupid, childish, and jackassish.
just a quick question. so if you've reached level 6, if you do level 3 you'll feel stupid? dude, sorry but your logic here doesn't exactly work. You can be a level 6 and still every once and again revert back to a lower level with no problems as long as it's not a permenant stay.
I have the feeling the Jesus held the door for his mother. Besides, Jesus wasn't political (we make him political today, but he wasn't), he didn't stand against laws, he stood again sins. Actually for the most part Jesus didn't care about the (actually pretty fair) laws of the romans. He really was a sandal wearing bearded hippie... with magic powers. _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
I think you're misinterpreting what I say, much as many people do with things I say. It makes me wonder if I'm really that un-clear . . .
You can do good things at a lower level, but I mean, if you're on level 5, and you say to someone "Ok, I'll help you, but you need to buy me dinner", you feel childish. At the same time, on level 6, are you holding the door open because you want people to think you are a nice boy, or are you doing it because it is the curteous and right thing to do? Holding the door open can be level 6 if it's for hte right reasons.
As for Jesus, you kinda agreed with what I said. Jesus was on level 6. He disregarded the laws for multiple reasons. On level 4, you follow the laws for the sole reason that they are law. On level 5, you follow the laws because if everyone agrees to follow them, it benifits everyone. On level 6, the laws are a guideline. But only if they are moral. In Jesus time, the laws were first taken from scripture, then they were made stricter and stricter, overshadowing the original intent. Jesus made the point that the laws were there as a guidline, and that the original intent was been lost in hte specifics. He also made the point that things aren't inherently bad because they are against the law, or vice versa. An action is not bad because it is a sin. A sin is a sin because the action is bad. It's a very important difference. _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Fri Feb 21, 2003 5:05 pm
Force-Attuned_Krogoth
Joined: Nov 10, 2002
Post subject:
counterparadox wrote:
I think you're misinterpreting what I say, much as many people do with things I say. It makes me wonder if I'm really that un-clear . . .
You can do good things at a lower level, but I mean, if you're on level 5, and you say to someone "Ok, I'll help you, but you need to buy me dinner", you feel childish. At the same time, on level 6, are you holding the door open because you want people to think you are a nice boy, or are you doing it because it is the curteous and right thing to do? Holding the door open can be level 6 if it's for hte right reasons.
As for Jesus, you kinda agreed with what I said. Jesus was on level 6. He disregarded the laws for multiple reasons. On level 4, you follow the laws for the sole reason that they are law. On level 5, you follow the laws because if everyone agrees to follow them, it benifits everyone. On level 6, the laws are a guideline. But only if they are moral. In Jesus time, the laws were first taken from scripture, then they were made stricter and stricter, overshadowing the original intent. Jesus made the point that the laws were there as a guidline, and that the original intent was been lost in hte specifics. He also made the point that things aren't inherently bad because they are against the law, or vice versa. An action is not bad because it is a sin. A sin is a sin because the action is bad. It's a very important difference.
I'm not really sure that one has to stay in his level. I agree, there are times when acting like a figurative baby makes one feel childish. However, I see no indication that the two levels within each stage are at all contradictory. In fact, Jesus very much wished to have people follow most laws, because it makes things easier for everyone involved. When he healed a leper (we just had a sermon on this), he told the man not to proclaim himself "healed by Jesus," but to go through the normal cleansing process and be declared clean by the priests. This is definitely an example of Level 5 reasoning, but not at all shameful.
CC, jump right in. I've never taken/read anything related to psychology, other than conversations such as these. If you make and follow neural connections, you'll be fine. _________________ Krogoth uses Berserk.
Attacks are enhanced but defense weakens.
"Wait, that's not the cure button ... "
Fri Feb 21, 2003 7:03 pm
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
counterparadox wrote:
I think you're misinterpreting what I say, much as many people do with things I say. It makes me wonder if I'm really that un-clear . . .
You can do good things at a lower level, but I mean, if you're on level 5, and you say to someone "Ok, I'll help you, but you need to buy me dinner", you feel childish. At the same time, on level 6, are you holding the door open because you want people to think you are a nice boy, or are you doing it because it is the curteous and right thing to do? Holding the door open can be level 6 if it's for hte right reasons.
As for Jesus, you kinda agreed with what I said. Jesus was on level 6. He disregarded the laws for multiple reasons. On level 4, you follow the laws for the sole reason that they are law. On level 5, you follow the laws because if everyone agrees to follow them, it benifits everyone. On level 6, the laws are a guideline. But only if they are moral. In Jesus time, the laws were first taken from scripture, then they were made stricter and stricter, overshadowing the original intent. Jesus made the point that the laws were there as a guidline, and that the original intent was been lost in hte specifics. He also made the point that things aren't inherently bad because they are against the law, or vice versa. An action is not bad because it is a sin. A sin is a sin because the action is bad. It's a very important difference.
ok, first things first. the "I'll do this if you buy me dinner" thing doesn't make you feel childish. actually I do that all the time - probably one of the few ways I can actually eat good food not made by me. I have absolutely no problem with it and never feel childish. It's called being in college... and an artist.
As for Jesus, the rules form scripture thing... no. Rome had it's own laws much like we do now, only they weren't based upon the church until much after Jesus. There was no scripture, it hadn't been written yet. Guess where we got the idea of congress? the roman senate. The senate came from the people who were of all types of religious upbringing the only things they had in common were that they were brought up to belive (and they were pretty much right) that Rome was the bright center of the world. Christianity on the other hand started as a guideline but as the church grew, so did its influence and so did it's stranglehold. It basicly got on a power trip, and it really still is in some branches of christian church today. can you say baptist anyone? _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
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